Martin Spenser sat easily in a large chair next to the fireplace. We were in his study at home. After the usual exchange of pleasantries, I began the discussion. I still didn't know him very well at all, so I began somewhat nervously.

"Could you tell me how you became a Calvinist?"

He laughed and said, "Well, I didn't."

I must have looked baffled, so he went on.

"The term 'Calvinist' is really misleading. The issue for Christians should always be, 'What does the Bible say?' If the Bible teaches something, then it should be accepted as the biblical position. If the Bible does not, then it shouldn't be accepted at all."

"Then why do so many 'Calvinists' use the term?"

"Well, many biblical Christians use the term simply for the sake of convenience. It is for them a term of theological shorthand. They can let someone else know what their position is very quickly. Unfortunately, there are other Christians who adopt the term with the attitude forbidden by Paul — I am of Paul, I am of Apollos, and so forth."

"So why do you avoid the label?"

"I have found that it only works as a form of shorthand with people who are theologically educated, and it is frequently a problem even with them. With many people, I would have to say, 'I am a Calvinist, but....

I must have still looked puzzled, because he went on.

"Look. The church you grew up in defines a Calvinist as anyone who believes in eternal security. But eternal security is only one tiny part of the teaching of what is called 'Calvinism.'There is no way that I could tell someone in that church that I am a Calvinist and be understood."

"So what label do you use?"

"I am a Christian. And the doctrines I hold are the doctrines of the Bible."

"But doesn't that sound arrogant? 'My position is the biblical position. What's yours?'"

"Yes, it can sound arrogant, and if I don't watch my heart constantly, it can actually be arrogant. But it appears to me to be what the Bible requires."

"What about the term 'Reformed'? I have heard some people use that before."

"It's better than 'Calvinist,' although I think the Bible discourages this kind of labeling at all. So I try not to use either. But I have had this opinion of labels for over twenty years, and people still insist on calling me a 'Calvinist,' and 'Reformed.' So if someone has to use something other than 'Christian,' I prefer to be called 'Reformed.' People don't understand that term either, but at least it doesn't carry a lot of negative baggage with it. They don't understand, but they don't misunderstand either."

"Okay," I said, getting to the question that was keeping me up nights. "Can a Christian lose his salvation?"

Martin didn't answer with a yes or a no. In fact, I was sort of surprised at how he began.

I guess I have to ask you to define your terms. What do you mean by 'Christian,' and what do you mean by 'salvation'?"

I sat and thought a minute.

"A Christian is someone who has been born again, and has faith in Jesus Christ. Salvation is from sin and the consequences of sin. Someone loses his salvation when he foolishly rejects Christ, and falls back into the eternal consequences of that choice." I leaned back in my chair, feeling a little pleased with my definitions.

"And it bothers you to think that this sort of thing might happen?"

"Yes, it does. I know that in some places the Bible seems to teach that this can happen, but there are other passages which make it seem unthinkable."

"We'll look at some of those passages later. For now, let's continue with our definitions."

I nodded in agreement, so he went on.

"Suppose you saw a lifeguard rescuing a drowning person. The lifeguard was pulling the person in, and then for some reason the drowning man began to fight the lifeguard, pulled free, and went to the bottom."

"All right," I said.

"Did the drowning man lose his 'salvation'?"

"Well, yes."

"Really? Was he ever saved?"

Okay, not in any ultimate way. True salvation would be the possession of those up on the beach."

"In other words, a man is only saved from something if that something doesn't happen to him, right? He is only saved from drowning if he doesn't drown?"

"Right.,,

"Now with regard to salvation from sin and hell, does God know which individuals will be 'up on the beach' eventually? Does He know who will wind up in heaven?"

"Certainly. God knows everything."

"So then, God sees who will possess this ultimate salvation?"

"Yes."

"Can this final salvation be lost?"

"Obviously not."

"So once you are saved, then you cannot lose it."

I nodded my head, wondering where this was taking me.

"So then, the disagreement between Christians is not over whether salvation can be lost. It is over whether a man in this life can know that he will be saved."

I thought for a moment, and then agreed.

"Another way of putting this is to say that some Christians think that regeneration can be reversed, and other Christians do not. And that leads us to your definition of a Christian. You said that a Christian was someone who was born again through his faith in Jesus Christ, right?"

"Yes," I said.

"So his regeneration is dependent upon his faith?"

"Well, of course."

"But what if faith is dependent on regeneration?"

"What do you mean?"

"Suppose faith is a gift? And suppose further that the way God gives this gift is through regenerating a sinner's heart?"

"It is all very well to suppose. How do you know that it is? And if faith is a gift from God, then how is it genuinely mine? "

"There are two questions there. In order, we know that faith is a gift because the Bible says it is."

"Where?"

"Philippians 1:29. For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake. This teaches that suffering for Christ is a gift, along with believing in Him. Both are gifts, and both are from God."

"Anywhere else?"

"Yes. Acts 18:27. In talking about the ministry of Apollos, Luke tells us that he was a great help to those who had believed through grace. It doesn't say that they believed in grace, but rather through grace. Grace enabled them to believe. So again, faith, or belief, is a gift."

This was all pretty strange to me, so I asked for another passage.

"Well, this one is disputed, but it is worth noting. Ephesians 2:8-9. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God not of work lest anyone should boast."

"What is the dispute over?"

"It is over the referent of that. What is the gift of God? Salvation? Grace? Faith? A plain reading of it in English would indicate that you have been saved by grace, through faith, and that faith was not from yourself, but was a gift from God. The fact that faith is a gift keeps anyone from boasting."

"You said English. What about Greek?"

"That is where there is some dispute. Some have argued that faith cannot be the referent of that because in Greek the noun faith is feminine, while the pronoun for that is neuter."

"Well, doesn’ t that settle it? Doesn’t the pronoun have to match the noun in gender? I don't know much Greek, but. . . ."

"No, it doesn't have to match. With concrete nouns, like house, or ship, it usually will match. But abstract nouns like faith, hope and charity take the neuter. Thus, there is no reason in the Greek grammar of the passage to reject the plain reading of the text. Faith is a gift."

"You said there were two questions I had raised."

"Yes. You asked how faith could be mine if it were a gift."

"Oh, right," I said.

"You are concerned that if faith is a gift from God, then my faith in Him is really an optical illusion; it looks like I am exercising faith, but it is really He who does it?"

"Yes. That's exactly it. It makes the whole thing seem like a charade."

"Do you mind a physical example?"

"Not if it helps."

"When a young man hits adolescence, does he find himself, all of a sudden, with sexual desire?"

"Well, of course."

"Is the desire his?"

I answered carefully. "He experiences it. It sure isn't somebody else's desire."

"Prior to this, had he by an act of the will commanded his body to change?"

"No. It just happens."

"So his body is filled with testosterone, and his mind with desire."

"Right.”

"And it is his desire?"

"Yes."

"But who made the body this way?"

"God."

"So this body, and the bodily desire he has, are gifts? From God?"

“Yes.”

"And the desire is nevertheless his, and he is responsible for how he acts, based on those desires?"

"So why do we have a double standard? If God can give physical gifts this way, why do we say He cannot give faith? It is the same sort of thing. He gives me a new heart, and this new heart believes in Him. And I am the one believing."

I thought I almost had it, so I said, "Could you say it briefly another way?"

"Sure. I have faith in God because He gave it to me. Of course it is mine. He gave it to me."

"I guess so."

I grinned."I see. Suppose someone told me that a birthday present wasn’t mine because it was given to me. That's not an argument against my possession of it. It is mine because it was a gift."

"Right. And the fact that we are dealing with faith doesn't change things at all."

"Okay. Now how did we get here? We were talking about whether Christians can lose their salvation."

"It all ties in. If my salvation is something God does in me, through me, and for me, then He will not cease doing it. If I am saved through faith, and I am, and faith is a gift, and it is, then that faith will not falter. It is the work of God."

"I see."

"But if I am saved by faith, and faith is the work of man, then I have every right to be insecure. I may in fact be lost."

I nodded my head, and got up to go. "Thank you very much. I am afraid that's more than enough to chew on. May I see you next week?"

"Next week."

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