There is no disciple who is superior to his teacher; but every one whose instruction is complete will be like his teacher. (Luke
6:40)
The secular school system, by definition, is secular. The curriculum excludes Christ from its pages, and the teachers either hate
Christ, or are prohibited from proclaiming Him.
The average public school student spends 17,000 hours being educated by the godless State. That is 17,000 hours in which the child learns that
Jesus is irrelevant when it comes to reading, writing, arithmetic, science, relationships, sports, history, careers, and virtually
every other facet of life. The child is taught that he/she can be academically successful, popular, and successful in life, without any regard to
Jesus.
If any parent believes that he can send his child to public school to be taught by the State, and yet not grow up to be infected with the State's
secular humanistic worldview, then that parent does not believe Luke 6:40 is true.
According to Luke 6:40, it is a sin to send your children to public school.
I would suggest that given the context of Luke 6:40, i.e. after:
37 "Judge not , and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; [76
Luke 6:37 (ESV)
and before:
do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother,
'Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,' when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take
the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye.
Luke 6:41-42 (ESV)
It is not perhaps the best possible analysis to seek to apply verse 40 out of context to suggest that the vast majority of Christians in the West are
sinners for using public schools for thie children.
Mike,
In Luke 6:40, Jesus makes a general statement that applies to all of life: "A student will become like his teacher." Jesus applies that truth to
the particular context of chapter 6, but that does not mean the same truth cannot be applied elsewhere.
Mike, do you agree that "a student will become like his teacher", or not? If not, then how do you explain Luke 6:40?
But if you do agree, then you must agree with me that most Christians are committing a grave sin by sending their children to the unchristian public
school system.
Things can be applied in all sorts of ways but the whole point of that section of Luke is to discourage Christians from judging our brothers.
I could not disagree more with your conclusions, and indeed I think that coming to such a conclusion you are potentially being sinful yourself. The
clear meaning of the chapter is not to judge others, a potential (and fairly remote) meaning is that you should be very particular who teaches your
children, to then go on to judge others for letting the state appoint teachers for your children is a fairly clear example of mote and beam.
Do you not see the irony in your post?
Mike,
1) First of all, you are being evasive, and I do not appreciate that. Please answer the question: "According to Luke 6:40, do you believe that a
student will be like his teacher?" Please answer the question this time, instead of sidestepping it.
2) The Bible commands Christians to judge sin in one another. Even in the "mote and beam" passage itself, Jesus says, "Remove the beam from your
own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the mote from your brother's eye."
--- Indeed, I have removed the beam from my eye in this regard. I have renounced the public school system as entirely unbiblical, and all of my
children are homeschooled. Thus, I can see quite clearly, and I am able to judge sin in other Christians who disobey Scripture and send their
children to be educated by Ceasar.
(The only way I would be hypocritical would be if I put my kids in public school, but then told other parents to homeschool their kids. THAT would be
a case of keeping a beam in my own eye, while pointing to the mote in someone else's.)
3) Sending children to public school is not a mere "mote in the eye". It is a serious sin that needs to be addressed. Not only is public schooling
prohibited by Luke 6:40, it is even more clearly prohibited by Deuteronomy 6. Go read it for yourself.
4) Mike, do you have children? Do you send them to be educated by the State? Or do you raise your children in the fear and admonition of the Lord?
I am not being evasive at all, off course I agree with what the bible says , do really expect a confessional Christian to say or believe otherwise?
Whether this statement has material relevance to public school is another matter entirely.
Where you do not see the irony in your position is that you are using teaching that you should not look to be judgemental to be judgemental. Just
because people may not agree with you does not mean that you should accuse people of being sinful.
I am content that my own personal position in this respect is in accordance with what I believe is the right course of action. What I can assure you
is that my views on your post have nothing to do with my own personal circumstances.
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To put it in another perspective, READ THIS and then respond again.
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Brother Joseph, you have brought up a very good insight. Would this apply to college, graduate, and professional education also?
Joseph
I am not saying that you do not have a biblical argument for homeschooling, or even that I disagree with you, or even that it may be sinful to send
your children to public school.
What I am saying is that to take the verse that you did out of context and to accuse people of being sinful not only involves some torturous logic but
is poor exegesis.
As for the comment that:
Substitute "abortion" for "homeschooling" and try making this lame argument.
in relation to my comment that:
Just because people may not agree with you does not mean that you should accuse people of being sinful.
I hope that on reflection you will see how illogical the comment about abortion is.
My comment included the word "just", i.e. just because soemone disagrees with you does not make something sinful, the fact that it may in fact be
sinful is another question altogether. If someone does not agree with me that killing babies is wrong they are being sinful in killing a baby not
because they disagree with me but because they are comitting murder and there is a fairly clear biblical case against murder.
Now state education is a topic not directly addressed in the Bible, and as the previous post highlights there are at the very least shades of grey in
any argument against education involving non believers.
Gunslinging accusations of sinnning on complex subjects, especially on the basis of a pretty irrelevent texts is in my mind questionable. You might as
well start accusing those who have blind teachers for their children of sinning on the basis of the previous verse.
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I've re-read the passage in Luke several times, and I still find the sentence about teachers jarring, in no clear way connected to the rest of the
passage.
As a 20-year veteran in the public school system, let me assure you that instruction was NEVER complete - I saw the kids for less than 5 hours a week.
I guess they resembled me in several ways - in their thinking - but I'm not at all sure what they were. Any student of mine who didn't realize
that I was a committed Christian was paying so little attention that they were in little danger of being influenced by me at all.
I know Joe is a excellent programmer. I don't know how important it was that he learned to program from a Christian, or just how the glories of C++
reflect the majesty of God. That strikes me as a fairly neutral topic, as does pretty much all Math. What's more, Joe was in little danger of
becoming an image of Bill Gates, because his parents consistently and intentionally taught him Biblical truths.
Curt,
Please comply with the signature requirements!
Pastor, I don't know what they are or where to find them.
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Got it - hope that's better.
Do you have any thoughts on why this verse about teachers appears in this context? I still find it jarring.
hroth
I will have a look at it early next week. The Gospels can be tough.
My own reading of this section would be as follows, I will first put verse 40 in a bit more context:
27 "But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. 29
To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. 30 Give to
everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. 31 And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to
them.
32 "If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do
good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is
that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. 35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return,
and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. 36 Be merciful, even as your
Father is merciful.
37 "Judge not , and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; 38 give, and it will be
given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured
back to you."
39 He also told them a parable: "Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40 A disciple is not above his teacher, but
everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher. 41 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log
that is in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,' when you yourself do not see
the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in
your brother's eye.
Luke 6:27-45 (ESV)
In verse 27-36 we are told to Love our enemies, not in some abstract way, but in the same way as God loves us by being merciful to us, in saving us
when we are undeserving and unrepentant sinners.
The key here as that we are to act as our father (verse 36). This lesson is then mirrored in that as well as loving our enemies we are also told not
to judge others, in doing this we are of course not following God's example because he does Judge, the reason why we should not judge is that we
ourselves are sinful and therefore have no right to judge others.
Verse 39 explains this by pointing out that the blind cannot lead (i.e. judge) the blind, i.e. the sinful judge the sinful. Verse 40 then gives us the
hope that when we are fully trained (i.e. we have run the race and have finally left behind our sinful nature) we will be like our Teacher (i.e. God).
Until then it is explained to us why we should not judge, due to our own sin.
Verse 40 is therefore to be understood in relation to us being exhorted to be as our father in being merciful but not to judge (as our father does) as
we are blind, however in glory we will be as our father in no longer being blind, until then we should not judge others in view of our own sin.
Jospeh
First of all I will attempt to take any "heat" out of my postings in this thread. In my previous post I have set out my understanding of verse 40 in
its context. I hope that this satisfies your request that I show the context of the verse.
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