Christian Homeschooling
biblelighthouse - 8/28/2007 at 06:56 AM
I was reading a section on the CREC denomination website, and I found something I really love:
| Quote: |
E. Memorial on Christian Education
All things are to be considered and conducted under the Lordship of Jesus Christ, including education, and especially the education of our covenant
children. God has neither charged nor authorized the state to educate children within its civil jurisdiction. God has commanded parents to bring up
their children in the education and admonition of the Lord (Eph. 6:4, Deut. 6:7). Given the importance and enormity of the task (Ps. 127:3-5, Deut.
6:7-9), and the impossibility of neutrality in education (Prov. 1:7, Matt. 12:30, Luke 6:40, Col. 2:1-10, 2 Cor. 10:3-5), we do heartily affirm the
necessity of educating our children in a manner that is explicitly Christian in content and rigor.
Government schools are, by decree and design, explicitly godless, and therefore cannot be considered a legitimate means of inculcating true faith,
holy living and a decidedly Christian worldview in the children of Christian parents.
Parents who do not fully understand the indispensability of Christian education should be warmly received into membership. However, the leaders of
Christ’s church must thoroughly understand and plainly teach the divine imperative to disciple our children, the divine prohibition of rendering unto
Caesar those who bear God’s image (Matt.22:20-21), the divine warning to those who cause their little ones to stumble (Matt.18:6) and the divine
promises to those who raise their children in faith (Deut. 7:9, Ps.102:5-7, Ps. 103:17-18, Prov. 22:6, Luke 1:48-50, Acts 2:39).
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I think those 3 paragraphs are short, sweet, and fantastic.
Some people say we should send our children to godless public schools in order to be salt and light. I think that's hogwash. Should I send my
12-year-old daughter alone to an African jungle tribe so she can witness the Gospel to them? No way! Until she has had decades of explicitly
Christian training, and until she has matured into an adult, and until she has been thoroughly taught how to effectively witness Christ to that
foreign culture, she is not ready to be a missionary. When she is 25, maybe she can go to that jungle, especially if she is married to a likeminded
missionary man. But sending her alone at the age of 12? No way! --- So it is with public schools.
Some people would accuse me of sheltering my children. What are they going to accuse me of next, clothing and feeding them?
[Edited on 28-8-2007 by biblelighthouse]
ReformedCharismatic - 8/28/2007 at 07:19 PM
What should parents do who are not capable of home schooling?
What are single parents to do with very limited resources?
HeidelbergCQ1 - 8/28/2007 at 08:40 PM
We need to be careful here. I despise government schools, and I hope I am able to send my kids to a Christian school one day. But unfortunately, in
this culture, you need a little something called money. And money isn't always easy to come by.
biblelighthouse - 8/29/2007 at 06:57 AM
| Quote: |
Originally posted by ReformedCharismatic
What should parents do who are not capable of home schooling?
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What do you mean by "not capable"?
If both parents are working full-time outside the home, then one of them should quit the job and start staying at home with the children instead, in
order to truly take Deuteronomy 6 seriously. If they cannot maintain their standard of living with a single income, then their standard of living is
unneccesarily high. In that case, they need to move somewhere with a lower cost of living, and/or drive less expensive cars, and/or quit eating out
so often, etc.
| Quote: |
Originally posted by ReformedCharismatic
What are single parents to do with very limited resources? |
The Church should step in to help in such cases. God simply does not intend for children to be raised by a single parent alone. Thus, the Church
should step in to help fulfill the duties of the second parent. If the Church is unwilling to help in this area, then the parent is probably going to
the wrong Church.
| Quote: |
Originally posted by HeidelbergCQ1
I despise government schools, and I hope I am able to send my kids to a Christian school one day.
|
| Quote: |
Originally posted by HeidelbergCQ1
But unfortunately, in this culture, you need a little something called money. And money isn't always easy to come by. |
It doesn't take much money to educate your kids. You don't have to farm kids out to Christian schools outside the home. You don't need expensive
curriculum. Books are cheap.
t.rob - 8/29/2007 at 09:20 AM
At a basic level, I wholeheartedly agree that government schooling is dangerous and, whenever possible, to be avoided. It is "government religion"
8 hours-a-day however you slice it. There is no neutrality. I'm on board with all that in full.
However, most of the (even Christian) world isn't like the U.S., Australia, Japan, and/or parts of Europe (i.e. more educationally/economically
developed areas). Most of the world is still poor, really poor. That deep poverty inevitably leads to illiteracy in that young children must leave
government schools (that are no good to begin with) in order to work to put food on the table (much less buy the Logos curriculum guide).
Where I live (Guanajuato, Mexico), a man, his wife, and his 15 year old son all working full-time barely gets them by. And here I'm not talking
about boats, cars, going out to eat, and a little Starbucks here and there. I'm talking about eating period, clothing without holes, and housing
that actually keeps the elements out.
This cycle of "poverty -> lack of education (for having to leave school to work) -> poverty" is vicious. It goes on and on. These people
cannot (and I daresay, must not!) stay home from work to teach their children because (a) they can't read themselves anyway and (b) they wouldn't
eat. Yes the church must provide, but the people ARE the church. And the people are poor. This is the reality in a large portion, if not the
majority of the world...at least for now.
But that doesn't mean that government schooling, even in the poorest countries, ISN'T sinful. It is. It ought to be avoided. But if you're an
optimistic sort of person eschatologically, you realize that we're still miles/years away from "arrival." Biblically, optimism for the future must
also coexist with realism in the present. Probably Mexico (as w/the rest of the world) is where it is today because of sin, infidelity to the King,
etc. And probably the people, as a whole, are paying for it.
The ship will only turn around slowly, and I mean slowly. We tend to not see things over the long-haul. Concerning homeschooling/Christian
schooling, we need to adopt a longer, more patient vision AND a broader vision (the world is much bigger than the U.S.) without losing our backbone,
without losing our biblical vision.
All that to say:
1. I don't fundamentally disagree w/Joseph, to the contrary.
2. I do think we have to consider the whole of Christendom in this discussion (thinking of underdeveloped countries where our brothers live).
3. Which means we have to maybe lower our standards a bit for the time being (without losing our glorious vision, and without excusing sin).
4. But with the hope that even countries like Mexico (which is rich in comparison with many countries) might eventually be discipled, including the
ability for poor/uneducated people to move forward in Christian education one day...one day.
5. Until then, we're to be slow to condemn our Christian brethren who really and truly CANNOT homeschool, wherever they live in this world (and I
suspect there are many more of those kinds of folks in the U.S. than we know).
[Edited on 8-29-2007 by t.rob]
Paleodoxy - 8/29/2007 at 10:49 AM
Churches entering into the CREC must state all exceptions to the memorials, just as minsters are require to state exceptions (if any ) to their
confessions. Our church takes this exception to that memorial:
We certainly agree that parents are to raise their children in the fear and admonition of The Lord and that public school may present a potential
if not out right hindrance to this. We agree that Christian or home schooling is by far the preferred situation.
Still, due to the present sinfulness of our age and the complexity of various family situations and due to the lack of established Christian schools
in some areas, we also admit that at times it may be necessary, though not desirous, for some to make use of the public school system, judiciously.
Parents are required to teach their children the truth and so to oppose any errors that public school or society in general may impose upon them. The
church then is to aid the parents in this task even to the point of establishing Christian Schools when possible and as soon as possible.
I am in the process of starting a Classical Christian School here in Meeker. I have now two students (parishoners) ages 9 and 10 to whom I am
teaching Koine Greek, they are in their second semester.
[Edited on 29-8-2007 by Paleodoxy]
biblelighthouse - 8/29/2007 at 11:49 AM
| Quote: |
Originally posted by t.rob
1. I don't fundamentally disagree w/Joseph, to the contrary.
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| Quote: |
Originally posted by t.rob
2. I do think we have to consider the whole of Christendom in this discussion (thinking of underdeveloped countries where our brothers live).
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I am glad you brought this up. Truly, my earlier post was narrowly focused on homeschooling within the USA. At that particular time, I wasn't
considering poorer countries. Thank you for drawing my attention outward.
| Quote: |
Originally posted by t.rob
3. Which means we have to maybe lower our standards a bit for the time being (without losing our glorious vision, and without excusing sin).
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To some extent, yes. But I don't think that means there necessarily reaches a point in which we could say, "We are so poor that we must send
our kids to government schools." That would be similar to saying, "Our children are so far away from any godly marriage prospects that we
must send them to the brothel." On the contrary, I think for a kid to stay with his parents, work with them, and learn what he can from them,
is *better* than for him to go to government schools. (And I am not suggesting that you are arguing otherwise.)
| Quote: |
Originally posted by t.rob
4. But with the hope that even countries like Mexico (which is rich in comparison with many countries) might eventually be discipled, including the
ability for poor/uneducated people to move forward in Christian education one day...one day.
|
I certainly agree that families in such poverty can barely afford their day-to-day sustenance, and probably cannot even afford to purchase used books.
But if we therefore say that Christian education is impossible under such circumstances, I think we would be missing the point.
How rich/poor do you think families were in Israel about 2000-3000 years ago? Do you think they were wealthier than Mexican families?
You see, the Bible never says that we must teach our children reading, writing, and arithmetic! Of course, I am in favor of teaching them all that
and more . . . when possible. But the Bible doesn't *require* that. What the Bible *does* require is thorough training in godliness. And that is
precisely what the kids will *not* get in any government school.
| Quote: |
Originally posted by t.rob
5. Until then, we're to be slow to condemn our Christian brethren who really and truly CANNOT homeschool, wherever they live in this world (and I
suspect there are many more of those kinds of folks in the U.S. than we know).
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Who "cannot" homeschool? I think that suggestion only makes sense if we define "school" the same way our government schools do. Sure . . . if
"homeschooling" means that your kids have to sit at home all day at a desk studying reading, writing, math, and history, then I would agree that
many people in poverty may not be able to provide that for their children. But where does the Bible ever tell us we need to "school" our children
in this way? That particular type of "schooling" is a very modern invention which is not mandated by Scripture.
Suppose there is an extremely poor family who works on a farm. They raise their kids from infancy, until they are old enough to start working side by
side with mom and dad. The kids never learn to read. They never learn to write. They never learn much math. But the parents consistently teach
them to trust Jesus, love God, and obey His commandments.
I would say that this poor family has succeeded in providing their children with a solid, godly, Christian education. They would have successfully
"homeschooled" their children.
Now, for those of us in more well-to-do areas of the world (such as the USA), I certainly think we ought to go the extra mile and teach our kids
reading, writing, arithmetic, and perhaps some Greek and Latin too. But the lack of ability to do these extras are not an excuse to neglect the
Christian education of our children.
ReformedCharismatic - 8/29/2007 at 12:34 PM
| Quote: |
Originally posted by biblelighthouse
| Quote: | Originally posted by ReformedCharismatic
What should parents do who are not capable of home schooling?
|
What do you mean by "not capable"?
If both parents are working full-time outside the home, then one of them should quit the job and start staying at home with the children instead, in
order to truly take Deuteronomy 6 seriously. If they cannot maintain their standard of living with a single income, then their standard of living is
unneccesarily high. In that case, they need to move somewhere with a lower cost of living, and/or drive less expensive cars, and/or quit eating out
so often, etc.
| Quote: | Originally posted by ReformedCharismatic
What are single parents to do with very limited resources? |
The Church should step in to help in such cases. God simply does not intend for children to be raised by a single parent alone. Thus, the Church
should step in to help fulfill the duties of the second parent. If the Church is unwilling to help in this area, then the parent is probably going to
the wrong Church.
| Quote: | Originally posted by HeidelbergCQ1
I despise government schools, and I hope I am able to send my kids to a Christian school one day.
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by HeidelbergCQ1
But unfortunately, in this culture, you need a little something called money. And money isn't always easy to come by. |
It doesn't take much money to educate your kids. You don't have to farm kids out to Christian schools outside the home. You don't need expensive
curriculum. Books are cheap. |
ReformedCharismatic - 8/29/2007 at 12:42 PM
Many parents do not have the skill sets to properly educate a child. In these cases I believe the church should step in and provide schooling, by
utilizing their own God given resources.
biblelighthouse - 8/29/2007 at 01:42 PM
| Quote: |
Originally posted by ReformedCharismatic
Many parents do not have the skill sets to properly educate a child.
|
I think the only skill sets parents need, according to Scripture, is the ability to teach their kids to love God, and to love their neighbors. If I
teach my kids to love Jesus and to obey Him, then I have properly educated my kids.
However, I do agree with you that we should educate our kids even more, if possible.
| Quote: |
Originally posted by ReformedCharismatic
In these cases I believe the church should step in and provide schooling, by utilizing their own God given resources. |
If the local church has the ability to help in this area, then that is definitely a good idea.
hrothgleas - 9/4/2007 at 12:43 PM
There's a tension here that I think all Christians need to be aware of. We're called to be 'in the world, but not of it.' I'm concerned that we
may tend to withdraw from this godless world to the point where we might as well be Amish.
My cousin Joseph sent me a book called 'Excused Absence' about this topic. I disagree with the author vigorously on a number of points. For
example, he says that Christians shouldn't even teach in public schools. I think he overstates the case - I've taught in public schools for 20
years. I never held back from sharing my beliefs, and held Bible studies & FCA meetings throughout that time. I also got to talk to a number of
Moslem students as I studied Arabic - got to present the Gospel to several, and to clear up a number of misconceptions about the Bible. Christian
kids in my classrooms were salt & light, and I don't think my teaching of Chemistry, AP Chemistry, and Astronomy slowed their spiritual growth
any.
Hey, Joe - watch the language. If public schools are like brothels, does that make me a prostitute or a pimp?
Do you have friends who aren't Christians? Do your kids?
I know I'm lacking in perspective - no kids. Joseph worked as a sub in public schools, and has a terrific wife & family.
biblelighthouse - 9/4/2007 at 01:46 PM
Welcome to The Reformation Superhighway, cousin! I'm glad you are here!!
| Quote: |
Originally posted by hrothgleas
There's a tension here that I think all Christians need to be aware of. We're called to be 'in the world, but not of it.' I'm concerned that we
may tend to withdraw from this godless world to the point where we might as well be Amish.
|
You are correct that this is a danger Christians need to be aware of.
However, this danger does not apply to the question of public schooling vs. home schooling.
There is a world of difference between my kid having a pagan teacher, and my kid having a pagan neighbor. The pagan neighbor has no authority of my
child, and is not given the opportunity to indoctrinate my child with a godless worldview for 7 hours a day. The pagan teacher, on the other hand . .
.
| Quote: |
Originally posted by hrothgleas
My cousin Joseph sent me a book called 'Excused Absence' about this topic. I disagree with the author vigorously on a number of points. For
example, he says that Christians shouldn't even teach in public schools. I think he overstates the case - I've taught in public schools for 20
years. I never held back from sharing my beliefs, and held Bible studies & FCA meetings throughout that time.
|
Kudos to the Bible studies and FCA meetings!
But what do you do *during* class? For example, when you are teaching your astronomy classes, do you frequently quote Genesis 1, Psalm 8, etc.? Is
your primary goal to teach them astronomy, or is your primary goal to use astronomy to point them to God's Glory?
| Quote: |
Originally posted by hrothgleas
I also got to talk to a number of Moslem students as I studied Arabic - got to present the Gospel to several, and to clear up a number of
misconceptions about the Bible.
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Excellent! Was this during class, or in the spare moments you could find before/between/after classes?
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Originally posted by hrothgleas
Christian kids in my classrooms were salt & light, and I don't think my teaching of Chemistry, AP Chemistry, and Astronomy slowed their spiritual
growth any.
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You say that it didn't "slow their spiritual growth any" . . . compared to what?
Are you saying that they grew spiritually, just as much as they would have in a class which consistently brought every lesson back around to the
Scriptures, and to God's Glory?
I am not suggesting that your classes necessarily stunted everyone's spiritual growth, but I am suggesting that they could have spiritually grown far
more if your hands weren't tied by the nonchristian public school system.
| Quote: |
Originally posted by hrothgleas
Hey, Joe - watch the language. If public schools are like brothels, does that make me a prostitute or a pimp?
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The "brothel" comparison was focused on the students, not on all the teachers. Sending your children to public school is prostituting them to the
world. (I use the word "world" here in the sense of 1 John 2:16).
| Quote: |
Originally posted by hrothgleas
Do you have friends who aren't Christians? Do your kids?
|
Yes, I have nonchristian friends. And as my kids get older (they are ages 4 and under right now), they will no doubt have nonchristian friends,
too.
But like I said, a nonchristian neighbor is very different from a nonchristian teacher, which is different still from a nonchristian public school
system. It is one thing for me to allow my child a controlled amount of interaction with my nonchristian neighbor, for the purpose of spiritual
training, and for the purpose of being salt and light. But it would be another thing entirely for me to send my child next door for 7 hours a day,
250 days a year, to let the nonchristian raise my child. (This point not only condemns public schooling as we know it, but also the majority of
day-care businesses.)
| Quote: |
Originally posted by hrothgleas
I know I'm lacking in perspective - no kids. Joseph worked as a sub in public schools, and has a terrific wife & family. |
Thank you for your kind comment, Curt.
Try to imagine having full responsibility for a young child. God has put that child's future into your hands. Of course you may love the idea of
that child becoming a missionary, dedicating his entire life to God and the Gospel. But would you send him out on the mission field immediately, to
butt heads with the natives of some native American tribe? Or would you give the child some years of training first, and encourage the child to wait
until adulthood to take on such a heavy responsibility?
Of course neither you nor I would send our children out alone to spend 7 hours a day witnessing to moslems. But how is a child going head-to-head
against a 40-year-old humanist public school teacher any different?
I love you, cousin Curt. I'm glad you are here.
hrothgleas - 9/9/2007 at 03:10 PM
The horrible wrenching sound you hear is your stiff-necked cousin changing his mind.... I hope this one works better.
I do think there's an issue here of withdrawing from the world. If a child goes to Christian school, or is home-schooled, then heads off to a
Christian college, he could be in his mid-20's and not have interacted with the world. Somewhere along the line that becomes, I think, selfish.
I certainly agree that you must protect your children, and I'm begining to think that primary school, at least, should be in a Christian setting.
I've spoken to a number of families in my church about this. One family had two terrific daughters I had in High School. Both had started out in
private school, and transferred later. At different grades. I guess treating your kids like individuals makes pretty good sense, too. The parents
viewed HS as a time to help them make a transition while they were still under the parent's supervision. That makes so much sense it scares me.
You make an excellent point about the authoritarian role of the teacher (but as I say that I have to laugh! I'd LIKE to think I had serious
authority.)
When I teach astronomy, my goal is not to teach them to appreciate God's glory through study of nature. I let them know that that's how I feel, but
I have to be a little subversive. When you take a programming class, I don't know how often you need to be reminded that C++ glorifies God.
However, studying computer languages often drove me to prayer.
The best part of that book talked about the need for parents to be intentional about devoting time with their kids & their spiritual growth. I
love the way I've seen you work with your girlses already.
Love you.
SuperhighwaySpeeder - 9/11/2007 at 12:11 PM
Hi Kurt! Good to talk to you again!
SuperhighwaySpeeder - 9/11/2007 at 12:16 PM
Christian children being taught, nurtured and raised by the parents is the absolute best, preferred, and scripturally-mandated method. (using Joe's
arguments and scripture references)
Christian schools are second best (or third worst?)
Classical schools are third best (or second worst?)
Public schools are vile, deplorable and should all be destroyed like 
Sodom & Gomorrah.
(Non-christian children should be schooled in Christian homes or in Christian schools - NOT by their parents.)
LadyFlynt - 9/12/2007 at 07:14 AM
Joseph, you are leaving out one important aspect of homeschooling...the laws. Due to this, your "farm example" is not currently acceptable and can
actually cause children to be removed from a home.
biblelighthouse - 9/12/2007 at 08:33 AM
| Quote: |
Originally posted by LadyFlynt
Joseph, you are leaving out one important aspect of homeschooling...the laws. Due to this, your "farm example" is not currently acceptable and can
actually cause children to be removed from a home. |
Thank you very much for reminding me of this extremely important point. I certainly would NOT want to put any parents in the position of risking
losing their children to the State. To "save them from the State" by removing them from school, only to result in losing them to the State
(permanently!), would indeed be counterproductive.
That was a much needed reminder. Thank you!
LadyFlynt - 9/12/2007 at 09:34 AM
Personally I don't believe the state should be involved at all...but unfortunately we have it anyhow.
Ivan - 9/12/2007 at 10:21 AM
| Quote: |
Originally posted by LadyFlynt
Personally I don't believe the state should be involved at all...but unfortunately we have it anyhow. |
and
Visigoth - 9/12/2007 at 01:51 PM
Daniel endured a state education.
| Quote: |
Dan 1:1 In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and
besieged it.
Dan 1:2 And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with some of the vessels of the house of God. And he brought them to the land of
Shinar, to the house of his god, and placed the vessels in the treasury of his god.
Dan 1:3 Then the king commanded Ashpenaz, his chief eunuch, to bring some of the people of Israel, both of the royal family and of the nobility,
Dan 1:4 youths without blemish, of good appearance and skillful in all wisdom, endowed with knowledge, understanding learning, and competent to stand
in the king's palace, and to teach them the literature and language of the Chaldeans.
Dan 1:5 The king assigned them a daily portion of the food that the king ate, and of the wine that he drank. They were to be educated for three
years, and at the end of that time they were to stand before the king. |
My wife educates our children in the home. It is a blessing to live where we have that choice. But I am sure God is able to provide and protect
Christian children who cannot partake of that benefit.
Paleodoxy - 9/12/2007 at 01:59 PM
As an aside I wonder if the nature of Daniel's education was more related to court and so forth since he was already recognized as being learned etc.
(1.4). Then there is Moses...
Visigoth - 9/12/2007 at 02:04 PM
"the literature and language of the Chaldeans"
No doubt that included their pagan world-view, much as public school teaches today.
Daniel drew the line at an unclean diet. What the law forbade. The law does not forbid learning under pagan authorities. It simply calls us to
discernment. The parents should counter pagan beliefs at home through "nurture and admonition". For me, the question of public/private/home school
is not a moral one, it is simply preference and calling.
LadyFlynt - 9/13/2007 at 08:54 AM
It appears that Daniel also was not a "child". Therefore, this would be more like him attending a university today after his foundation had already
been laid by his parents.
Visigoth - 9/13/2007 at 09:38 AM
Daniel's school seems state funded. College is payed for by the individual or grants/scholarships etc.
So, do most homeschoolers think it is a sin to send small children to public school, but not young adults?
biblelighthouse - 9/13/2007 at 09:59 AM
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
Daniel's school seems state funded. College is payed for by the individual or grants/scholarships etc.
So, do most homeschoolers think it is a sin to send small children to public school, but not young adults? |
Yes, that is my position.
An adult may be ready for the mission field, whereas a 12-year-old is not. --- Similarly, a well-trained 20-year-old may be ready to take on a
secular education system with wisdom, whereas that cannot be expected of a little kid.
As Colleen mentioned, the important thing is for a child to receive a solid foundation of Christian education from his parents. Then, when he becomes
a young adult, it is time to push him out of the nest. --- Even then, discretion should be used when choosing a college. But I do think a secular
university is acceptable (for some subjects) once a person becomes a young adult.
[Edited on 13-9-2007 by biblelighthouse]
Paleodoxy - 9/13/2007 at 10:37 AM
Daniel, of course, was also a prisoner.
Visigoth - 9/13/2007 at 12:11 PM
| Quote: |
| Some people say we should send our children to godless public schools in order to be salt and light. |
"Should", is too strong of a word for my taste regarding Christian children in a heathen setting. But certainly little children can be used by God
to bring other children to Christ. I have seen it happen.
And, let us not forget scriptural examples of such as well.
2Ki 5:1 Naaman, commander of the army of the king of Syria, was a great man with his master and in high favor, because by him the LORD had given
victory to Syria. He was a mighty man of valor, but he was a leper.
2Ki 5:2 Now the Syrians on one of their raids had carried off a little girl from the land of Israel, and she worked in the service of Naaman's wife.
2Ki 5:3 She said to her mistress, "Would that my lord were with the prophet who is in Samaria! He would cure him of his leprosy."
2Ki 5:4 So Naaman went in and told his lord, "Thus and so spoke the girl from the land of Israel."
biblelighthouse - 9/13/2007 at 12:25 PM
God is certainly able to do that. Praise Him!
But let us not forget that this little girl, too, was a prisoner. Had her parents willingly sent her into pagan captivity, it would have
been a heinous sin.
Visigoth - 9/13/2007 at 12:41 PM
Well, I never once said either way whether it is a sin to have kids attend public school. Being strangers and pilgrims and living in a revolutionary
way that contradicts the host empire is what we Christians do. It is God's kingdom now. So I do not really grasp your concept of a pagan/Christian
dichotomy when it comes to the world. I would not be sending my kids into pagandom, they are the rightful heirs of this world. We take a bit more
via affirmativa approach to heathens in our midst than the popular via negativa perspective. But, I think I understand where you are
coming from. We can dwell in unity in spite of our views on education.
My wife and I homeschool for other reasons. None of them are ethically based reasons. They are more pragmatic than spiritual.
LadyFlynt - 9/16/2007 at 07:16 AM
Curt, I missed your posts somehow last time (things come slowly for me right now as we are expecting another blessing 
).
The first thing I notice is the broad assumptions you make in your posts about homeschoolers and those that attend Christian private schools. You
state they have no contact with the world. I beg to differ and so do the statistics...particularly in the area of homeschoolers. Homeschoolers have
a greater opportunity of connecting and interacting with the "real world" on a daily basis compared to the public school students that are locked
inside four walls all day with only their age segregated peers. My children see plenty of the world and people in it. The difference is that they
are guided by my husband and myself in what they see, in how they learn to respond to others, etc. They aren't locked away in their bedrooms with a
stack of books. They aren't just "tossed in a cage" like we all were in the public schools. I attended public schools, so I can justly use the
"cage" scenario.
You are one of the few Christian teachers. Our highschool had a few also...but it wasn't enough to combat the out and out humanistic teachers (who
were much louder and permitted to be). Their classrooms were only a safe-haven for 45mins of the day. Even then, they had to steer as neutral a
course as possible (skipping the evolution chapter in biology for example...thank you Mrs R-R!!!). Beyond that, they could do nothing. FCA was for
those that already knew Christ in most cases...in other cases, Christian students that weren't in Christian homes were denied attendance by their own
parents...yep, I was one of them. What Bible studies?...thank God I met my husband when I was 15 or I would have never had that...but do you really
want YOUR daughter meeting her husband at 15???
I have literally HELLISH stories of public school. Public school is NOT the "real world". It's a concentrated arena of deviances. Trust me, as a
teacher, you only see a small portion of these kids' lives and the amount you miss is quite possibly the part they need guidance in. Truely what
they need are their parents first and foremost...no matter how christian and meaningful the teacher is.
The year that meant the most was when my non-christian parents placed me in a christian day school. I even know non-christian parents that are coming
to the Lord through christian curriculum. Certainly there are the pagan kids and pagan curriculum...but if we can THOROUGHLY ground the others, we
created a FIRM foundation.
As for the Amish...well, they need a light shown to them as well. Guess what, most of the people on this board and in our churches can't even get
their foot in the door with them. Guess why? Oh...well, that's another thread 
[Edited on 16-9-2007 by LadyFlynt]
SuperhighwaySpeeder - 9/16/2007 at 02:31 PM
I keep hearing excuses (in various places) like these:
* Some parents aren't equipped to teach. They're not smart enough.
* In some families, both parents must work and can't homeschool.
* Homeschooled children aren't well socialized.
* As Christians, our children should be witnesses to the children in public schools.
I've heard and read some great arguments (even in this thread) against these weak excuses. But...as strong or weak as these arguments are, they
would mean NOTHING if the command to homeshool were explicit. If God blatantly commanded Christian parents to homeshool children (maybe creating the
11th commandment) there would be no list of excuses as to why not. But, again, because it is an implicit command, the list continues to grow and
propogate throughout the Christian community. Bottom line - these excuses are based in complacency.
biblelighthouse - 9/16/2007 at 03:44 PM
| Quote: |
Originally posted by SuperhighwaySpeeder
...as strong or weak as these arguments are, they would mean NOTHING if the command to homeshool were explicit. If God blatantly commanded Christian
parents to homeshool children (maybe creating the 11th commandment) there would be no list of excuses as to why not. But, again, because it is an
implicit command . . . |
Are you positive that it is not an explicit command?
God specifically commands parents to give their children a distinctly Christian education:
"And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk
of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up."
(Deuteronomy 6:6-7)
Note the explicit "you shall teach" statment. I'm not convinced that it can be delegated, any more than the "you shall" statement 2 verses
earlier can be delegated. God says, "you shall love the Lord your God", and you cannot delegate the "you shall" to someone else. Likewise, God
says, "you shall teach . . . your children", and I question whether you can delegate the "you shall" to someone else. . . . surely this distinctly
Christian education cannot be delegated to a pagan public school system!
Also, note the numerous time-oriented statements in this verse:
"when you rise up" = first thing in the morning
"when you lie down" = last thing in the evening
"when you sit in your house,
when you walk by the way" = the entire day in-between
Somehow, unless a person has an a priori goal of bypassing homeschooling, it looks to me like Deuteronomy 6 doesn't leave any room for your
child to be shipped off for 8 hours a day to be educated by someone else.
In other words, it looks pretty explicit to me.
Visigoth - 9/16/2007 at 08:22 PM
| Quote: |
God specifically commands parents to give their children a distinctly Christian education:
"And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you
sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up."
(Deuteronomy 6:6-7) |
Joseph, with all due respect, that is talking about the law of God, not mathematics, reading, science, or music.
biblelighthouse - 9/16/2007 at 09:49 PM
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
| Quote: | God specifically commands parents to give their children a distinctly Christian education:
"And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you
sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up."
(Deuteronomy 6:6-7) |
Joseph, with all due respect, that is talking about the law of God, not mathematics, reading, science, or music. |
Thank you for catching another one of my points, and for catching it perfectly! 
The point it this:
** God commands parents to thoroughly teach their children God's law & the Gospel.
** God does not command parents to make sure their children learn mathematics, reading, science, or music.
So when parents neglect teaching their children the Scriptures when they sit in their houses, when they walk by the way, when they lie down, and
when they rise up, it is a heinous sin. And when they neglect it in the name of mathematics, reading, science, or music, it is doubly heinous,
for they are replacing the education God commands with an education which God does not command.
Now, I am not against teaching mathematics, reading, science, or music. But NONE of these subjects should take precedence over teaching children the
Word of God. And when any of these subjects are taught, they should be taught ACCORDING to the Word of God. That rules out public schools, because
public schools do not seek to teach any of these subjects according to God's Word. They do not subject their teaching of mathematics, reading,
science, or music to the Word of God. They do not teach children to appreciate mathematics, reading, science, or music via the light of God's
Word.
First: We must teach our children God's Word.
Second:
** If we teach mathematics, we should teach our children that mathematics are a reflection of God's Glory.
** If we teach reading, then we should use the Bible, and other godly books as tools for this. Eventually, when we use nonchristian literature, we
should always go back to Scripture to judge where the nonchristian literature teaches godly principles, and where it teaches ungodly principles. The
light of God's Word must reign Supreme in literature.
** If we teach science, we should teach our children that all true science is a creation of the God of the Bible. In the course of teaching
astronomy, for example, Psalm 8 and Romans 1:20 should be taught.
** If we teach music, we should teach that God created music to Glorify Him. We should teach the Psalms. We should teach hymns. We should teach
multiple other music styles as well. And all lyrics should be judged according to the Word of God, to determine whether they be godly lyrics or
ungodly lyrics.
In short: Yes, I agree with you, Mark. Deuteronomy 6:6-7 is talking about the the law of God. The focus of that Scripture is not at all the same
as the focus of our public school system. Thus, our children should not go to public school.
Visigoth - 9/17/2007 at 09:10 AM
You lost me Joseph.
I am still not seeing how you get to your conclusion that public education is evil from the premise that Christians should teach their children the
law of God.
biblelighthouse - 9/17/2007 at 10:31 AM
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
You lost me Joseph.
I am still not seeing how you get to your conclusion that public education is evil from the premise that Christians should teach their children the
law of God. |
1) Look at the time texts in Deuteronomy 6. You are to teach your children God's law from the time you get up in the morning, throughout the day,
until you go to bed at night. So there is no time left in the day in which you *could* send your kids away to public school for 8 hours a day, if you
obey Deut. 6.
2) The entire public school system teaches *counter* to the law of God, from the time kids arrive at school in the morning, until they leave in the
afternoon. So for the 8 hours a day that they are at school, the parents are disobeying Deut. 6. Instead of teaching the kids God's Word, the
public school is teaching them the word of the State / the word of secular humanism.
On both of these counts, it is impossible to obey Deuteronomy 6, while simultaneously sending your children to public school.
Visigoth - 9/17/2007 at 12:56 PM
| Quote: |
1) Look at the time texts in Deuteronomy 6. You are to teach your children God's law from the time you get up in the morning,
throughout the day, until you go to bed at night. So there is no time left in the day in which you *could* send your kids away to public school for 8
hours a day, if you obey Deut. 6.
|
That is a cultural and tribal aspect of being in the Christian community. Today I think we would apply that in a more general sense.
| Quote: |
2) The entire public school system teaches *counter* to the law of God, from the time kids arrive at school in the morning, until they leave in the
afternoon. So for the 8 hours a day that they are at school, the parents are disobeying Deut. 6. Instead of teaching the kids God's Word, the public
school is teaching them the word of the State / the word of secular humanism. |
Explain how Math, and English and Geography, etc . . . are being taught from a perspective of secular humanism. Science only has a shred of it when it
comes to biology, and none at all when it comes to chemistry or physics. I attended public school as a Christian and somehow survived.
We have very close friends whose children are the same grade as ours but who attend public school, while we homeschool. Those children know just as
many memory verses and bible stories as ours. And, when we watch Nature videos with them, they are just as adept as my children as pointing out the
evolutionary ideas of the narrator as my kids are.
SuperhighwaySpeeder - 9/17/2007 at 01:38 PM
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
Explain how Math, and English and Geography, etc . . . are being taught from a perspective of secular humanism.
|
An absence of God doesn't make it neutral. When math, english and geography are taught without mention of the One who created them, we are left with
a secular humanistic point of view being taught to children. 
Christian children in public schools are being implicitly taught by their parents who send them there that God is important, but just not for 8 hrs
each day and just not in the realm of english and geography. God is sovereign, but not in the area of math and music.
I would say that it isn't so much as what is being taught as what is NOT being taught.
[Edited on 17-9-2007 by SuperhighwaySpeeder]
biblelighthouse - 9/17/2007 at 04:05 PM
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
| Quote: | 1) Look at the time texts in Deuteronomy 6. You are to teach your children God's law from the time you get up in the morning,
throughout the day, until you go to bed at
night. So there is no time left in the day in which you *could* send your kids away to public school for 8 hours a day, if you obey Deut. 6.
|
That is a cultural and tribal aspect of being in the Christian community. Today I think we would apply that in a more general sense.
|
Sure, if you have a preconceived commitment to ship kids off to public school, and you want to use an ad hoc explanation to justify it.
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
| Quote: |
2) The entire public school system teaches *counter* to the law of God, from the time kids arrive at school in the morning, until they leave in the
afternoon. So for the 8 hours a day that they are at school, the parents are disobeying Deut. 6. Instead of teaching the kids God's Word, the public
school is teaching them the word of the State / the word of secular humanism. |
Explain how Math, and English and Geography, etc . . . are being taught from a perspective of secular humanism. Science only has a shred of it when it
comes to biology, and none at all when it comes to chemistry or physics.
|
They teach from a perspective of secular humanism, simply by leaving God out of the equation altogether:
*** Kids can sit in geography class for an hour a day, for over 200 days a year, without ever hearing Acts 17:26 even mentioned, much less having that
verse as a central focus! In geography class, Acts 17:26 is a more important lesson than learning the location of Mexico, or learning the capitals of
European countries.
*** Kids can sit in history class for an hour a day, for over 200 days a year, without ever hearing a word about Daniel 2:21, 2:44, Acts 17:26, or
Amos 3:6. And in history class, those verses teach more important lessons than any public school video about the civil war. However, some Christian
organizations have put out educational materials about the civil war, and other historical things, from an explicitly Christian perspective. Now
*these* types of educational resources are helpful!
*** Kids can sit in English/Literature class for an hour a day, for over 200 days a year, without ever even opening the Bible!!! Enough said.
*** I would argue that the same goes for mathematics. Even that subject should be taught from an explicitly Christian perspective. However, since I
do not want to take this current thread too far off track, I'll just leave it alone. I do think that the subject of mathematics is the subject which
has been least corrupted by secular humanism. And I don't want to waste a bunch of time arguing over "math from a Christian perspective."
--- Once you and I agree on History/Geography/Literature/Science/etc. from a Christian perspective, then we can talk about math from a Christian
perspective.
*** Kids can sit in chemistry/physics class for an hour a day, for over 200 days a year, without ever hearing Colossians 1:16-17, or Romans 1:20.
When they are taught in chemistry class how to titrate polyprotic acids, the teacher doesn't end the lesson with praise to God for this awesome
display of His Glory at a molecular level.
In a nutshell: All these subjects are taught poorly at public school, not because God is necessarily badmouthed, but rather because He is left out of
the equation entirely. Rather than making God and His Glory the *foundation* and *purpose* for teaching all these subjects, the Christian God is not
even mentioned as being important during physics class, chemistry class, etc. This is a fundamental sin of the public school
system.
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
I attended public school as a Christian and somehow survived.
|
So what? Since you "somehow survived", that makes public school ok?
People "somehow survive" kidnapping, rape, abuse, etc. --- God, in his mercy, saves people all the time.
By God's grace, people "survive" all sorts of things. That does not mean there aren't any casualties along the way. And it certainly doesn't
mean that we should therefore subject our children to those things.
Just because you "somehow survived", doesn't mean that your kids would survive. Sending your kids to public school is like playing Russian
Roulette with your children.
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
We have very close friends whose children are the same grade as ours but who attend public school, while we homeschool. Those children know just as
many memory verses and bible stories as ours. And, when we watch Nature videos with them, they are just as adept as my children as pointing out the
evolutionary ideas of the narrator as my kids are. |
"Homeschooling", in and of itself, isn't the solution. It is possible to parrot the public school's systems and methods, but just to do it within
the four walls of a home. Just copying the world's methods -- at home -- is not what needs to be done.
I do not know how you homeschool your children, so I am *not* speaking against you personally. I don't know your methods.
However, you have admitted that your kids don't know any more Scripture than their friends who go to public school. My simple question in response
is: "Why not?"
On a given day, you (or your wife) have 8 hours more time with your children than public schooling parents do. Therefore, why aren't you using that
8 hours to teach them more of God's Word and God's ways? Or does your 8 hours with them simply parrot the public school's 8 hours with them? (I
have no way of knowing one way or the other, so please don't take my question as an accusation. It is just a question.)
At the very least, surely you can agree with this statement:
"It is possible to teach your kids a lot more Scripture if you have 12 hours a day with them, rather than if you only have 4 hours a day with them."
Agreed?
That 8 hours a day at public school is a massive amount of time that the State steals from parents.
Visigoth - 9/17/2007 at 05:37 PM
| Quote: |
However, you have admitted that your kids don't know any more Scripture than their friends who go to public school. My simple
question in response is: "Why not?"
On a given day, you (or your wife) have 8 hours more time with your children than public schooling parents do. Therefore, why aren't you using that 8
hours to teach them more of God's Word and God's ways? Or does your 8 hours with them simply parrot the public school's 8 hours with them? (I have
no way of knowing one way or the other, so please don't take my question as an accusation. It is just a question.)
At the very least, surely you can agree with this statement:
"It is possible to teach your kids a lot more Scripture if you have 12 hours a day with them, rather than if you only have 4 hours a day with them."
Agreed?
That 8 hours a day at public school is a massive amount of time that the State steals from parents. |
Mu kids not knowing anymore scripture that the public school Christians does not mean I am failing necessarily. Could it not also imply that those
parents are succeeding in spite of public education. You are assuming that the consequences of all public education is always evil.
We do not try to fit the bible into everything we do and say. It is integral to our lives as Christians, but I do not try to contrive some biblical
meaning to every math or physics formula. We teach them the Bible, and we teach them the practical knowledge needed to get along in this world and
function as an intelligent member of society. I do not open the bible when I teach geography, I open the atlas and go to the globe. If we are studying
Egypt, or the middle east, we bring in the historical biblical accounts.
What we are discussing here is not a moral issue. It is a methodological one. I am not sinning by discussing English, reading and writing apart from
some biblical curriculum. They can certainly read the bible, but they can also read Shakespeare and Homer in their lessons.
biblelighthouse - 9/17/2007 at 09:13 PM
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
We do not try to fit the bible into everything we do and say.
|
Why not?
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
It is integral to our lives as Christians, but I do not try to contrive some biblical meaning to every math or physics formula.
|
No contriving is necessary. All knowledge naturally points back to God. That's the way God created the universe.
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
We teach them the Bible, and we teach them the practical knowledge needed to get along in this world and function as an intelligent member of society.
I do not open the bible when I teach geography, I open the atlas and go to the globe. If we are studying Egypt, or the middle east, we bring in the
historical biblical accounts.
|
Good job, bringing in the historical biblical accounts!
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
What we are discussing here is not a moral issue. It is a methodological one. I am not sinning by discussing English, reading and writing apart from
some biblical curriculum. They can certainly read the bible, but they can also read Shakespeare and Homer in their lessons. |
My kids will probably read Shakespeare and Homer, too. But it will happen with explicitly Christian oversight. And we will discuss these secular
texts in the light of Scripture. Where these texts agree with Scripture, we will praise them. Where these texts run counter to Scripture,
we will expose them.
There is no piece of knowledge that is an island, alone unto itself. Every piece of knowledge in *any* class relates back to the foundation of God
and Christianity in some way. It is explicitly the job of parents to teach their kids to see this connection. No subject is exempt, not even math or
literature.
[Edited on 18-9-2007 by biblelighthouse]
Visigoth - 9/17/2007 at 09:45 PM
Well, have a great time with that. I think that sort of thinking leads to Christian fortune cookies and Christian breath mints, and a myriad other
goofy things I now see in family book stores.
Kitsch.
My kids know that this world is God's world. We listen to good music, not Christian music. We watch good films, not Christian films. We do not need
Christian clothing or Christian bumper stickers or Christian textbooks. I half agree with you. We only know anything because we are created as
"knowers" in God's image. But, I find myself saying . . . "no kidding" I do not have to point that out in every line of every school lesson I
teach my kids. They know it.
Christ didn't use kitsch. Kitsch, was what the Pharisees used. As a matter of fact, the book of Hebrews says the Old Covenant was just an inferior
shadow of the "real".
SuperhighwaySpeeder - 9/17/2007 at 10:06 PM
How unfortunate that you see viewing everything in light of Scripture as "kitsch". Unfortunate for both you and your children. 
Visigoth - 9/17/2007 at 10:18 PM
| Quote: |
Originally posted by SuperhighwaySpeeder
How unfortunate that you see viewing everything in light of Scripture as "kitsch". Unfortunate for both you and your children. |
Not viewing creation in the light of scripture. Just tagging bible verses on everything in creation.
See the difference?
biblelighthouse - 9/18/2007 at 03:10 AM
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
Well, have a great time with that. I think that sort of thinking leads to Christian fortune cookies and Christian breath mints, and a myriad other
goofy things I now see in family book stores.
Kitsch.
|
I do remember saying that all subjects should be judged according to God's Word.
I don't remember advocating Christian fortune cookies or breath mints.
Would you care to tell me how one leads to the other?
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
My kids know that this world is God's world. We listen to good music, not Christian music.
|
OK . . . Are you teaching your children to judge the lyrics of that music according to Scripture? Or do you just let them listen to whatever they
want, with no censorship whatsoever?
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
We watch good films, not Christian films.
|
OK . . . Are you teaching your children to judge those films according to Scripture? Or do you just let them watch whatever they want, with no
censorship whatsoever?
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
We do not need Christian clothing or Christian bumper stickers or Christian textbooks.
|
I agree that the Christian clothing and bumper stickers are unnecessary.
But those are a far cry from Christian textbooks. Clothing and bumper stickers are not primary vehicles for the teaching of your children.
Textbooks, however, are.
It is impossible for a textbook to keep from presenting history through the lens of a particular worldview. A history textbook, for example, will
either present history via a man-centered worldview, or via a God-centered worldview. It is not possible to write a history textbook without writing
it from a particular worldview.
So, does it make more sense for Christian kids to learn all of their history from a book which presents history to them through the lens of humanism?
Or does it make more sense for Christian kids to learn their history from a book which presents history to them through the lens of Christian
Theism?
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
I half agree with you. We only know anything because we are created as "knowers" in God's image. But, I find myself saying . . . "no kidding" I
do not have to point that out in every line of every school lesson I teach my kids. They know it.
|
Excellent. That must be because you are teaching
them to see things via that worldview.
BTW, I never said it has to be pointed out in "every line of every school lesson". I fully realize that, during an hour-long class on the civil
war, a good 55 minutes of it may simply be spent looking at the details of this battle or that. I don't think a particular Bible verse has to be
found for every minute of classtime. However, I do think class should begin and end with a reminder that God is Sovereign over all of history, and
that He is the one who directs it as He wills. Men's decisions are only secondary. God's decrees are the ultimate foundation for all history. I
also believe the actions of people in history should be judged according to Scripture. In any history class, at least one of the questions asked
should be, "Is what this person did right according to the Bible, or is it sin?"
So, I am not talking about turning every minute of class into a exegetical sermon. I am talking about the entire class resting upon the foundation of
Scripture, and the entire class being taught via a Christian worldview. --- Your kids are probably doing so well because you and your wife do this
naturally. You are Christians, and you see everything through the lenses of a Christian worldview. But public school teachers usually do
not do this.
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
| Quote: | Originally posted by SuperhighwaySpeeder
How unfortunate that you see viewing everything in light of Scripture as "kitsch". Unfortunate for both you and your children. |
Not viewing creation in the light of scripture. Just tagging bible verses on everything in creation.
|
I am curious:
Just what in creation do you think there is which is not addressed by Scripture?
Visigoth - 9/18/2007 at 06:34 AM
| Quote: |
{quote]BTW, I never said it has to be pointed out in "every line of every school lesson". I fully realize that, during an
hour-long class on the civil war, a good 55 minutes of it may simply be spent looking at the details of this battle or that. I don't think a
particular Bible verse has to be found for every minute of classtime. However, I do think class should begin and end with a reminder that God is
Sovereign over all of history, and that He is the one who directs it as He wills. Men's decisions are only secondary. God's decrees are the ultimate
foundation for all history. I also believe the actions of people in history should be judged according to Scripture. In any history class, at least
one of the questions asked should be, "Is what this person did right according to the Bible, or is it sin?"
So, I am not talking about turning every minute of class into a exegetical sermon. I am talking about the entire class resting upon the foundation of
Scripture, and the entire class being taught via a Christian worldview. --- Your kids are probably doing so well because you and your wife do this
naturally. You are Christians, and you see everything through the lenses of a Christian worldview. But public school teachers usually do not do
this. |
I think we agree in principle. We just work it out differently in life situations.
| Quote: |
I am curious:
Just what in creation do you think there is which is not addressed by Scripture? |
Which math curriculum to buy for one example. God gives us freedom to chose wisely. We use biblical wisdom of course, but if there is a math
curriculum God favors above the rest, He did not let us know what it is.
biblelighthouse - 9/19/2007 at 11:41 AM
| Quote: |
Originally posted by Visigoth
I think we agree in principle. We just work it out differently in life situations.
|
SuperhighwaySpeeder - 11/27/2007 at 08:27 AM
Ten Reasons NOT to Homeschool
SuperhighwaySpeeder - 11/27/2007 at 08:59 AM
And yet, strangely enough, there are more Christians (besides some on this board) who do not homeschool their children.
Why I Do Not Homeschool - Part 1
Why I Do Not Homeschool - Part 2
Are his arguments valid? 
SuperhighwaySpeeder - 11/27/2007 at 09:20 AM
We are in Maryland right now visiting my family. My parents live here as does my sister's family. They have four children: seven, five, three and
one. No matter what I've suggested and discussed with them, they still have chosen to send their children to public school. I hate it!
The seven year old, Cambrey, LOVES school and, even though we're here for a short time, she wants to see her friends during the day. She's doing
very well. But last night Janelle (her mom) said Cambrey said, "Jeezers!" Janelle said, "Cambrey, don't say that. You know what it sounds
like!" Although Cambrey said she didn't know, her little sister Jorian said, "I know what it sounds like!" Then Jerry & Janelle began
talking about some of their discussions with Cambrey where she's told them about her friends at school and how nasty they are. Seven year old nasty
girls! Would this ever happen in a homeschool?
The five year old, Jorian, HATES school. She doesn't think she's smart. She would rather be home with mommy. And every day she asks Janelle if
she can stay home. This weekend she's been acting weird, quiet, almost sick. They had a long weekend due to the Thanksgiving holiday and she has
been asking, "What day is it?" and "How many days til Monday?" We kept answering her, but it seemed that she had something on her mind. Then,
Sunday night, she began coughing. Janelle said it was "forced coughing", and she did so much that she made herself throw up. TWICE! So Janelle
told her she could stay home from school, to which Jorian promptly replied, "Good! I had a math test today." AHA!!! This little five year old
sweetheart had stressed and fretted all weekend long to the point of making herself throw up so that she wouldn't have to go to school and take a
math test!! She got a one-day reprieve with some math help on flashcards from Janelle. But today she was sent back to school - a place she hates to
go - by parents who love her. Would this ever happen in a homeschool?
I love my sister and Jerry. But every day they take their two firstborn children - the two that they prayed for and raised to know Jesus - and they
place them in the enemy's training camp. I can't stand it!!
It breaks my heart!!
SuperhighwaySpeeder - 11/27/2007 at 09:25 AM
This is an excellent article from a homeschooling magazine. I think it is irrefutable because it is grounded solely in scripture. What do you
think?
Biblical Homeschooling
Zu_Den_Sachen - 11/27/2007 at 12:02 PM
Arguments? His reasons were for missions, and to learn how to deal with worldliness. Since he's a Baptist, I guess his arguments make sense, but
they're also a little confusing. How can his filthy, pagan children (assuming they haven't had a conversion experience yet) be witnesses for Christ?
He's really just being a consistent Baptist. Why educate my children according to God's wisdom? They're pagans.
biblelighthouse - 11/30/2007 at 09:35 AM
Gabe is right. If Tim is a baptist, and doesn't think kids are necessarily even "Christians" until they get older, then how in the world could he
send them out as "missionaries"??
However, even if Tim's kids are definitely Christians, his arguments are still not valid.
1) Scripture does not teach us to send out little kids as missionaries. Missions are supposed to be primarily done by adults who are well-grounded in
the Gospel.
2) Tim is right that kids should see some of the world's ugliness, and be taught how to deal with it. But this should be done *with* Christian
parental supervision, not *without* it.
Thus, Tim's "logic" fails on both counts. What he suggests is neither logical nor biblical.
Zu_Den_Sachen - 11/30/2007 at 11:37 AM
And if Mr. Challies is wanting his kids to fulfill the 'great commission,' they would be getting in trouble at school for baptizing their
classmates!
biblelighthouse - 11/30/2007 at 11:48 AM
Zu_Den_Sachen - 11/30/2007 at 11:59 AM
Baptism first, then discipleship. That's the Biblical way. Don't get mad at me!
SuperhighwaySpeeder - 12/30/2007 at 03:30 PM
Article: More Biblical Reasons for Homeschooling
Biblical Reasons = The Bible is Giving The Reason To Homeschool